Discussion:
Oderint dum metuant
Ralph Hancock
2014-04-11 01:22:27 UTC
Permalink
Most references on the web describe 'oderint dum metuant' as a favourite
saying of Caligula. Is that just one of those web myths copied from site to
site?

As far as I know, the phrase originated with Cicero (Philippicae 1.34),
'Quod videmus etiam in fabula illi ipsi qui "oderint, dum metuant" dixerit
perniciosum fuisse', which I suppose one might translate as 'For we see
even in the story/fable/play where that man said "Let them hate, as long as
they fear", that it was harmful to him.'

Does anyone have any idea what the story was, or what happened to the man?

RH
Fred Jenkins
2014-04-11 01:30:37 UTC
Permalink
It does appear in Suetonius' life of Caligula, as well as in a number of
other places. Accius seems to be earliest. PHI lists:

Cic.Off.1.97.6 <http://latin.packhum.org/loc/474/55/23/2508-2528>est, et
fit et dicitur, ut si Aeacus aut Minos diceret 'oderint dum metuant' aut
'natis sepulchro ipse est parens'
indecorumCic.Phil.1.34.2<http://latin.packhum.org/loc/474/35/0/22520-22540>caducum.
Quod videmus etiam in fabula illi ipsi qui 'Oderint, dum metuant' dixerit
perniciosum fuisse. Vtinam, M. Antoni, avum
tuumSenPhil.Cl.1.12.4.5<http://latin.packhum.org/loc/1017/14/8/1887-1907>versu,
qui multos praecipites dedit, utitur: 'Oderint, dum metuant', ignarus,
quanta rabies oriatur, ubi supra modum
odiaCic.Sest.102.13<http://latin.packhum.org/loc/474/22/32/566-588>alio
loco dixisset, quod exciperent improbi cives, óderint, dum métuant;
praeclara enim illa praecepta dederat iuventuti.
SedAcc.trag.203<http://latin.packhum.org/loc/400/3/0/11271-11294>quae
ego incípio conata éxequar. Atrevs óderint, Dum métuant. Qui nón sat habuit
cóniugem inlexe ín
stuprum.SenPhil.Cl.2.2.2.9<http://latin.packhum.org/loc/1017/14/18/2206-2226>humanam
pervenisse celebresque volgo ferri, ut illam: 'oderint, dum metuant', quoi
Graecus versus similis est, qui se mortuo
terramSuet.VC.Cal.30.1.7<http://latin.packhum.org/loc/1348/1/122/4721-4741>paria
meruisse dixit. tragicum illud subinde iactabat: oderint, dum metuant.
saepe in cunctos pariter senatores ut Seiani clientis, ut
SenPhil.Dial.3.20.4.4
<http://latin.packhum.org/loc/1017/12/47/1264-1284>ignorantibus
magnitudinem, qualis illa dira et abominanda 'oderint, dum metuant'.
Sullano scias saeculo scriptam. Nescio utrum sibi peius

cheers,
FJ

Fred W. Jenkins, Ph.D.
Professor and Associate Dean for Collections and Operations
University of Dayton Libraries
106A Roesch Library
300 College Park
Dayton, OH 45469-1360
(937) 229-4272
Post by Ralph Hancock
Most references on the web describe 'oderint dum metuant' as a favourite
saying of Caligula. Is that just one of those web myths copied from site to
site?
As far as I know, the phrase originated with Cicero (Philippicae 1.34),
'Quod videmus etiam in fabula illi ipsi qui "oderint, dum metuant" dixerit
perniciosum fuisse', which I suppose one might translate as 'For we see
even in the story/fable/play where that man said "Let them hate, as long as
they fear", that it was harmful to him.'
Does anyone have any idea what the story was, or what happened to the man?
RH
Ralph Hancock
2014-04-11 01:53:38 UTC
Permalink
Thank you very much. So the remark was first put into the mouth of Atreus.
No wonder Cicero commented on its ill effect.

RH

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